long time lurker, first time poster.. .
i'm an ms (accounts servant) in a large congregation in canada.
over the last several years i've faught a hard-won battle to rid my mind of all religous and supernatural beleifs.
Also back to the "we are born to believe in God" line of thinking...
If atheism is the natural way for humans, then why did it take so long for it to develop? Atheism is a relatively new invention. The natural course of life was for man to have God in his life (one way or another). Higher criticism is new. Atheism took a LONG time to develop. I'm not talking specific belief in God here. I'm talking about mans historically natural need for the spiritual.
long time lurker, first time poster.. .
i'm an ms (accounts servant) in a large congregation in canada.
over the last several years i've faught a hard-won battle to rid my mind of all religous and supernatural beleifs.
Then why didn't God create us so that we HAD to believe in him, just like we HAVE to breathe?
The lack of biblical understanding in a so-called Doctor is astounding. The Bible talks about this throughout the entire book. Faith AND Free Will has been discussed for as long as we had biblical writings. You can't take away the "Free Will" argument by simply stating that God should have given better proof. Who would want people to HAVE to love them or believe in them? Maybe a dictator would like everyone to be REQUIRED to believe in him and respect him. But that's not normal. God prefers us to come to Him because we love Him. Creating us so we HAD to believe in Him negates faith. Faith is an important part in our relationship to God.
God does not want anyone to believe in Him without faith. Faith is inextricably linked with TRUST. God wants us to trust Him as our life giver. He doesn't make it easy by coming out and saying "Fine guys, here I am, believe in me." He asks us to search for Him and He will be found.
long time lurker, first time poster.. .
i'm an ms (accounts servant) in a large congregation in canada.
over the last several years i've faught a hard-won battle to rid my mind of all religous and supernatural beleifs.
I don't have to read every book on Intelligent Design to argue the concepts.
I understood King Solomons point, NC. And I understand yours. But it's not that KS did not read ALL of the books on the subject. KS did not read a single SENTENCE of the book that he/she completely wrote off as fiction. I've gone to college and learned how to learn and think. I know that you cannot read every piece of every book, especially when you are researching. However, when you haven't read the book at all and then judge it's studies as wrong and the in between parts as poetic fluff....AND YOU HAVEN'T READ A SINGLE WORD OF IT...then I think it's silly and Watchtower-esqe.
So maybe KS knows about the book through other avenues, that doesn't mean he doesn't know what's in there.
Yes, but it was apparent that this was not the case. You guys asked me for proof that studies have been done that shows that children have a natural belief in God, even before being taught by parents. You laughed and said it was a silly comment and that no such studies would show that. I provided proof. KS said that he/she went on wikipedia and a NY Times review (and apparently researched it's peer reviews...all in 12 mins) and said it was false. KS did not know about the book before hand.
i have noticed that there is a lot of angst directed towards believers and non believers so i thought i would make a thread explaining how it all works from my own perspective.
the reality is that neither believers nor unbelievers are right or wrong, they simply are, if that makes sense.
to better understand the perspective ideologies i have constructed a map so to speak of how it all works.. the fact is that we are all products of our environment, we cannot escape this at first, but we can eventually, but first we have to accept that we were first a product of our environment.
and then there's the agnostics are cowards bit.
I wanted to comment on this too. If someone does not believe in Christianity, I find agnosticism the best route. I think it's ridiculous to call people that lean to an agnostic way of thining cowards. I think it's a place of being humble in knowing that you don't have all the answers (yet or ever) to make a solid decision. How is that cowardly? Isn't that better than saying "I have all the answers" even when you don't?
i have noticed that there is a lot of angst directed towards believers and non believers so i thought i would make a thread explaining how it all works from my own perspective.
the reality is that neither believers nor unbelievers are right or wrong, they simply are, if that makes sense.
to better understand the perspective ideologies i have constructed a map so to speak of how it all works.. the fact is that we are all products of our environment, we cannot escape this at first, but we can eventually, but first we have to accept that we were first a product of our environment.
The fact that the bible's middle-eastern male god was only mentioned from around 3,500 - 4,000 years ago, EVEN THOUGH WRITING IS MUCH OLDER, is solid evidence that "he" was not worshipped prior to that time.
Not necessarily, Zid. Even in the books attributed to Moses, there are references to older books. There is even a reference to a book of Adam, that some scholars say may have been written by Adam himself. If this is the case (and if Adam WAS the first man), then this would mean that the OT God was worshiped first.
Of course that is speculation, and can't be proven since there is no existing book of Adam, or any of the others referenced in Genesis.
i have noticed that there is a lot of angst directed towards believers and non believers so i thought i would make a thread explaining how it all works from my own perspective.
the reality is that neither believers nor unbelievers are right or wrong, they simply are, if that makes sense.
to better understand the perspective ideologies i have constructed a map so to speak of how it all works.. the fact is that we are all products of our environment, we cannot escape this at first, but we can eventually, but first we have to accept that we were first a product of our environment.
you're confusing laws with theory
laws don't change, theories do
No, I wasn't confusing the two. I know the difference between law and theory. And I wasn't necessarily talking about either. I was talking about what men, in times past, viewed as an unalterable truth. Modern physics and modern science in general is a relatively recent understanding. Before modern physics there was not an understanding between theory and law like there is now.
I was speaking in more general terms in saying that what men believe is an unchangable fact now, can be proven to be false tomorrow. I'm not saying a law such as gravity can be proven untrue.
i have noticed that there is a lot of angst directed towards believers and non believers so i thought i would make a thread explaining how it all works from my own perspective.
the reality is that neither believers nor unbelievers are right or wrong, they simply are, if that makes sense.
to better understand the perspective ideologies i have constructed a map so to speak of how it all works.. the fact is that we are all products of our environment, we cannot escape this at first, but we can eventually, but first we have to accept that we were first a product of our environment.
And Christ Alone may not want to wade thru THIS pdf, but I'm linking it in order to come back to it and read it thru, when I have more time
Zid, you get me wrong! I love reading this stuff! And believe it or not, with an open mind.
That teaches me to open my big fat mouth when I don't know about a subject! :-) I really was wondering where the 200,000 year thing came from. Thanks for the refs.
i would like to use this thread as a means of organizing all unanswered questions/points made on threads i started since obviously i could not answer something when i was banned..
CA, I dont recall any him showing any humility or apology since his almost obsessive stalking of jwfacts.com
Yeah, but can't we be the bigger person? Can't we show ourselves to be respectable after coming out of the Watchtower? Can't we show that we've learned real love after coming out of an organization that spouts off how they are the ONLY people that show true love? It's like with kids, "Why did you hit him?" "Because he hit me!"
No, I've known too many people that were JWs, came to sites like this to engage us and prove us wrong, and then learned that they were wrong all along.
By our insulting him and being critical, we can drive him away and make him feel like it's true that only those in the organization are loving. Or we could welcome him, answer him respectably, and help him to see that there is life outside of the Watchtower. Happy life. Real life. True life. Life that is not based on the rules and regulations of a man made organization that makes claims to supreme power from an ultimate authority. Belief in a God that is not the judgmental one that the Watchtower teaches.
i have noticed that there is a lot of angst directed towards believers and non believers so i thought i would make a thread explaining how it all works from my own perspective.
the reality is that neither believers nor unbelievers are right or wrong, they simply are, if that makes sense.
to better understand the perspective ideologies i have constructed a map so to speak of how it all works.. the fact is that we are all products of our environment, we cannot escape this at first, but we can eventually, but first we have to accept that we were first a product of our environment.
Goddesses who were worshipped over two hundred thousand years ago
Where is this claim from? You have written history from 200,000 years ago? Is this based on carbon dating?
i have noticed that there is a lot of angst directed towards believers and non believers so i thought i would make a thread explaining how it all works from my own perspective.
the reality is that neither believers nor unbelievers are right or wrong, they simply are, if that makes sense.
to better understand the perspective ideologies i have constructed a map so to speak of how it all works.. the fact is that we are all products of our environment, we cannot escape this at first, but we can eventually, but first we have to accept that we were first a product of our environment.
Basically you are stereotyping me by posting about stereotyping in this thread.
No, I think you got me wrong, Sab. I wasn't posting this about you at all! I was commenting on how you said that inside of these labels are individuals, and that we forget that sometimes. That's all I was saying. Actually I was agreeing with you.
And yeah, I sometimes use "stereotype" and "label" interchangably. Sometimes they CAN be synonyms. But you're right, they do have separate definitions in certain contexts as well.
I apologize that you thought I was labeling you as a stereotyper...
